We visied the filmmaking couple's house in Grand Rapids, Michigan, to learn more about why they left New York City. We returned with a story on what it takes to reach the other side of the proverbial mountain.
Published July 19, 2025
On January 12, 2021, New York Magazine ran a story with a grabby headline:
Hearken back to this strange, not-so-distant epoch, and you’ll realize that the timing of the article was, to put it succinctly, perfect. TikTok was a trendy, upstart social media platform known best for making either the most creative kid from your high school or the most annoying kid from your high school Internet Famous™ (with absolutely no room in between). On top of that, due to the pandemic, rent prices in New York City had cratered, creating a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for artists of all shapes and sizes to move to the Big Apple—and actually afford living there.
Daren Vongirder, a filmmaker, and Ava Gordy, a dancer, were two such artists. And as they started a new adventure together in New York, they decided to capture their day-to-day adventures through cinematic, slice-of-life videos, from trying bacon, egg, and cheeses at their local bodegas to dancing on the rooftop of their unfinished apartment.
That series, Being New Yorkers, blew up, gaining Daren and Ava a newfound notoriety around the city. Most viewers enjoyed living vicariously through the couple, as they approached each day with a sense of wonder. Others chafed, though, at the transplants’ audacity to label themselves “New Yorkers” after moving there mere days prior.
I knew all of this going into our first interview with Daren. I also knew that he eventually left New York for Grand Rapids, Michigan—a move he documented in his beautiful series Miles Away, which dropped on a new YouTube channel throughout 2024.
What I didn’t know was that executives at NBC had been watching Daren’s TikToks as far back as 2021. And when the company started an “Emerging Artists” program to begin developing original, scripted series with creators, Daren was one of their top candidates.
Over the last six months, we interviewed Daren three separate times as he approached a fascinating inflection point in his creative journey. The first, conducted in December 2024, focused on gaining a comprehensive understanding of his background. The second, taped in May 2025, saw Shua drive out to Grand Rapids and speak with both Daren and Ava, meeting the couple in their new home. The third, recorded in June 2025, saw me catch up with Daren one month after his show, People Like Me, released on Peacock.
To me, these conversations illuminate the path of a true artist who toiled behind-the-scenes (sometimes to his detriment) for years in the contemporary creator world. He’s lived countless lives, from landing his first job via tweet to a rapper under the pseudonym DVG.
In conversation, Daren seamlessly bounces between portraying a sense of hyper self-awareness to laying his soul bare. And as we logged off our last call in June, he struck me as someone who’s reached the other side of the proverbial mountaintop, only to find more mountains directly ahead in the near distance. “I hope you find whatever it is you’re searching for,” he said.
Yet through all of the restlessness, Daren and Ava have inspired millions to live their own lives to the fullest. We hope these conversations with them—spanning topics from taking swings to leaning on partners to dueling with self-criticism—make you reflect on your own creative journey, too.
This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Daren Vongirder, a filmmaker, and Ava Gordy, a dancer, were two such artists. And as they started a new adventure together in New York, they decided to capture their day-to-day adventures through cinematic, slice-of-life videos, from trying bacon, egg, and cheeses at their local bodegas to dancing on the rooftop of their unfinished apartment.
That series, Being New Yorkers, blew up, gaining Daren and Ava a newfound notoriety around the city. Most viewers enjoyed living vicariously through the couple, as they approached each day with a sense of wonder. Others chafed, though, at the transplants’ audacity to label themselves “New Yorkers” after moving there mere days prior.
I knew all of this going into our first interview with Daren. I also knew that he eventually left New York for Grand Rapids, Michigan—a move he documented in his beautiful series Miles Away, which dropped on a new YouTube channel throughout 2024.
What I didn’t know was that executives at NBC had been watching Daren’s TikToks as far back as 2021. And when the company started an “Emerging Artists” program to begin developing original, scripted series with creators, Daren was one of their top candidates.
Over the last six months, we interviewed Daren three separate times as he approached a fascinating inflection point in his creative journey. The first, conducted in December 2024, focused on gaining a comprehensive understanding of his background. The second, taped in May 2025, saw Shua drive out to Grand Rapids and speak with both Daren and Ava, meeting the couple in their new home. The third, recorded in June 2025, saw me catch up with Daren one month after his show, People Like Me, released on Peacock.
To me, these conversations illuminate the path of a true artist who toiled behind-the-scenes (sometimes to his detriment) for years in the contemporary creator world. He’s lived countless lives, from landing his first job via tweet to a rapper under the pseudonym DVG.
In conversation, Daren seamlessly bounces between portraying a sense of hyper self-awareness to laying his soul bare. And as we logged off our last call in June, he struck me as someone who’s reached the other side of the proverbial mountaintop, only to find more mountains directly ahead in the near distance. “I hope you find whatever it is you’re searching for,” he said.
Yet through all of the restlessness, Daren and Ava have inspired millions to live their own lives to the fullest. We hope these conversations with them—spanning topics from taking swings to leaning on partners to dueling with self-criticism—make you reflect on your own creative journey, too.
This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Nathan Graber-Lipperman: Where do you find yourself right now?
Daren Vongirdner: I am in my guest bedroom in Grand Rapids. I’m looking at the snow. It’s beautiful. I just bought a sled. I can’t wait to get out there.
NGL: What’s on your mind outside of sledding? It sounds like you’ve been pretty busy these last couple weeks.
It’s a lot of work, but it’s the holiday season. I haven’t even figured out what I’m going to do for Christmas yet, which I think is just days away.
That’s where I’m at.
NGL: I think the calendar would agree with you there. I do want to dive into leaving New York City and your series Miles Away a bit more in depth. But I was also curious: What have been your biggest takeaways since you put the series out? Any noteworthy DMs you received, or creative lessons you feel like you learned?
When the TikTok stuff went crazy, I kind of abandoned all of my focus on YouTube. I didn’t regret that, but I was afraid I’d have to start all over, and I don’t think my type of storytelling is conducive to a good thumbnail and title.
I mean, I haven’t figured it out yet. But what I’ve learned is that even without getting millions of views, my stories do really seem to resonate with people.
I’ve been very strategic in the past on trying to be as authentic as I can—while still trying to start each video with a hook, trying to grab people in. I think that’s part of the creator landscape.
But with Miles Away, I really just wanted to show my siblings, my mother, even my father (if he watched) what my life looked like. It really freed me up, and in doing so, I think that made it resonate with people more.
I got so many messages from people. I mean, even if you go through the comments, it’s wild. I’ve never seen a YouTube comment section like that. It’s just 99% positive. I’ve only released three videos, but only one of them has two dislikes.
And I think it’s just because people really miss their families, and they can see themselves in it. That’s my favorite type of art—when I can see myself in it, it really resonates.
NGL: What’s your family’s response to the videos been like?
In the last video I posted, there was this scene where I rented out a roller rink, and I’m talking about how some people in my family aren’t speaking right now. And I know what that’s like cuz I didn’t speak to our dad for a long time, and I’ve learned on this journey that it’s easier on this side—always expecting some type of call instead of the opposite.
Anytime they do hit me up, it’s like, “dude, I was crying so hard that moment when you talked about death.” So that’s always very nice.
NGL: So, we reached out to you because we really loved Miles Away. But the more I dove into your work over the years, I realized you have a lot of Internet lore.
DVG: I worked at a library when I was 16, and I hated it. I worked in the kids section. All I had to do was put the books in alphabetical order, and after two hours, I’d be like, “cool, I’m done.” And then a kid would come and just pull out all the books.
After that, I was like, yeah, I’m going to be an artist. And I tried my very best to make that happen.
My first actual job was with Philip DeFranco. I don’t even remember why I was a fan of his. I watched his videos, and I just tweeted at him one day. I think he tweeted something along the lines of, “I’m going to Charles Trippy’s wedding. I’m drunk on a plane. Ask me a question.” And I was like, “Here’s my shot.”
So I replied. “Can I have a job?”
And he replied pretty quickly. “What’s in it for me?”
“I’m a really hard worker! I’ll do this, I’ll do that.” I believe the next day, I was on the phone with his executive assistant—shout out to Dani [Rosenberg]. She was great. She is great.
I started as an intern in the internship program. They’re like, “We’re starting this new company called SourceFed, Google gave us a million dollars, blah blah blah.” Within two weeks, I had Skyped Phil a video of mine—even though we were instructed not to do that—and he pulled me into his office and told me it was excellent work.
They hired me full-time, and it’s been a journey ever since.
Daren on the SourceFed channel.
After that, I was like, yeah, I’m going to be an artist. And I tried my very best to make that happen.
My first actual job was with Philip DeFranco. I don’t even remember why I was a fan of his. I watched his videos, and I just tweeted at him one day. I think he tweeted something along the lines of, “I’m going to Charles Trippy’s wedding. I’m drunk on a plane. Ask me a question.” And I was like, “Here’s my shot.”
So I replied. “Can I have a job?”
And he replied pretty quickly. “What’s in it for me?”
“I’m a really hard worker! I’ll do this, I’ll do that.” I believe the next day, I was on the phone with his executive assistant—shout out to Dani [Rosenberg]. She was great. She is great.
I started as an intern in the internship program. They’re like, “We’re starting this new company called SourceFed, Google gave us a million dollars, blah blah blah.” Within two weeks, I had Skyped Phil a video of mine—even though we were instructed not to do that—and he pulled me into his office and told me it was excellent work.
They hired me full-time, and it’s been a journey ever since.
NGL: Love that. Were you a self-taught editor?
DVG: Regardless of the situation I’m in, I always try to learn from my peers. At that point, everyone around me had gone to film school, and I learned how to edit off YouTube. I learned how to film stuff just based on having a handycam that my mom got me when I was a kid. I didn’t know what the fuck I was doing, but I’m a quick learner, I guess. I had really good peers around me who were willing to teach me.
And then I almost got poached by Rhett and Link. I worked at Smosh. I edited for Jarvis Johnson. I’ve been in the YouTube world behind the scenes for a long time and it wasn’t until I moved to New York in 2020 where I was like, I’m going to really try to be a creator as well.
That [SourceFed] era was really tough on me [though]. I was in my early twenties. I was trying to figure out life, but there were a lot of great things that happened during that time. Whether it’s editing or shooting or being a leader or working and collaborating with people, I attribute so much of my success to that building, which I’m so grateful for.
And then I almost got poached by Rhett and Link. I worked at Smosh. I edited for Jarvis Johnson. I’ve been in the YouTube world behind the scenes for a long time and it wasn’t until I moved to New York in 2020 where I was like, I’m going to really try to be a creator as well.
That [SourceFed] era was really tough on me [though]. I was in my early twenties. I was trying to figure out life, but there were a lot of great things that happened during that time. Whether it’s editing or shooting or being a leader or working and collaborating with people, I attribute so much of my success to that building, which I’m so grateful for.
NGL: I kind of stumbled upon the fact that you were a prolific musician as well. You put out a lot of music, a lot of songs. Your 2016 album “My Life Became Beautiful” reached number ten on iTunes at one point.
DVG: My uncle handed me an acoustic guitar one day and I was super obsessed with this band, blink-182. I listened to them exclusively for fifteen years. So music and film have always been something that I was really intrigued by, and I always wanted to be in a band.
Growing up and watching blink-182’s documentaries and stuff…I just really romanticized that life. So I was doing all the YouTube stuff during the day, and at night, I was making music. I’m thirty-four now, and I’m looking back like, I didn’t even have a personal life. All I did was work. No wonder why I was sad.
Around this time in 2016, I went into my boss’s office at SourceFed. He was like, You’re doing great, and we’re actually going to have Christmas bonuses this year. You’re going to get $30,000.
I was like, “What? $30,000?”
Mind you, two days prior, I had written in my journal that I’m going to save $10,000 and quit this job so I can focus on music. I literally quit the next day. I gave him a thirty-day notice, but he was so upset. I was like, “I’m sorry, I got to follow this dream.”
So I quit, and I remember waking up that first day not having to go to an office. And I was just like, “okay, I guess I just make music now.” It became this unhealthy obsession with trying to make a hit song—trying to get my career to the next level. And I feel like because I was trying so hard, that might be why I didn’t get to the place that I wanted to. I was so hard on myself, and I was my biggest critic.
As far as iTunes goes, if you had a surge or a spike of streams, you’d be Number One for the night. But eventually Bruno Mars is going to kick you off the charts because it’s all about longevity. I don’t want to downplay that [though]. That’s still very cool to me.
NGL: I appreciate the fact check because I read that on Famous Birthdays—and Famous Birthdays is, of course, known as a bastion of extremely accurate and rigorous reporting.
What was your experience like several years later, when you really started sharing your videos on TikTok—and kind of had a bit of a boom trajectory on the app these last several years?
DVG: At that point, it’d been ten years of me producing content for other people. And, to be quite frank, watching them get rich. Money was a big motivator for me when I was younger, and I think all of us are still trying to find that financial freedom, obviously.
So I feel like back then, I was really bitter. But when it was finally my turn, and the content I was making…I was really proud of it. At the time, it was this series called Day One of being a New Yorker, which was just a random idea in my notes app two weeks before moving there.
Obviously, I had edited videos or produced videos that had got millions of views for other people, but never for myself. So that was the first one that was like, That feels different. Especially when it’s something that you would’ve made regardless of if anyone watched it—I made that so my partner Ava and I, when we’re old and gray, can go, “Remember when we were hot and we moved to New York?”
It was fun, but god, I was never able to find a healthy schedule. I think, right now, I’m in the best spot I’ve ever been in. I have this show that I’m working on with a studio. I have this YouTube channel that I’m trying to build that I think has so much potential. And even if it doesn’t do what I hope that it does, I’m still having so much fun and I’m learning how to become a better filmmaker.
I miss waking up and then your video has three million views, but at the same time, I also don’t miss it, because it came with a lot of heaviness.
NGL: It sounds like 2024 has been quite a monumental year.
DVG: I feel very grateful. I’m alive. Still playing basketball. A little out of shape these days, but life is good.
NGL: I appreciate the fact check because I read that on Famous Birthdays—and Famous Birthdays is, of course, known as a bastion of extremely accurate and rigorous reporting.
What was your experience like several years later, when you really started sharing your videos on TikTok—and kind of had a bit of a boom trajectory on the app these last several years?
What was your experience like several years later, when you really started sharing your videos on TikTok—and kind of had a bit of a boom trajectory on the app these last several years?
DVG: At that point, it’d been ten years of me producing content for other people. And, to be quite frank, watching them get rich. Money was a big motivator for me when I was younger, and I think all of us are still trying to find that financial freedom, obviously.
So I feel like back then, I was really bitter. But when it was finally my turn, and the content I was making…I was really proud of it. At the time, it was this series called Day One of being a New Yorker, which was just a random idea in my notes app two weeks before moving there.
Obviously, I had edited videos or produced videos that had got millions of views for other people, but never for myself. So that was the first one that was like, That feels different. Especially when it’s something that you would’ve made regardless of if anyone watched it—I made that so my partner Ava and I, when we’re old and gray, can go, “Remember when we were hot and we moved to New York?”
It was fun, but god, I was never able to find a healthy schedule. I think, right now, I’m in the best spot I’ve ever been in. I have this show that I’m working on with a studio. I have this YouTube channel that I’m trying to build that I think has so much potential. And even if it doesn’t do what I hope that it does, I’m still having so much fun and I’m learning how to become a better filmmaker.
I miss waking up and then your video has three million views, but at the same time, I also don’t miss it, because it came with a lot of heaviness.
So I feel like back then, I was really bitter. But when it was finally my turn, and the content I was making…I was really proud of it. At the time, it was this series called Day One of being a New Yorker, which was just a random idea in my notes app two weeks before moving there.
Obviously, I had edited videos or produced videos that had got millions of views for other people, but never for myself. So that was the first one that was like, That feels different. Especially when it’s something that you would’ve made regardless of if anyone watched it—I made that so my partner Ava and I, when we’re old and gray, can go, “Remember when we were hot and we moved to New York?”
It was fun, but god, I was never able to find a healthy schedule. I think, right now, I’m in the best spot I’ve ever been in. I have this show that I’m working on with a studio. I have this YouTube channel that I’m trying to build that I think has so much potential. And even if it doesn’t do what I hope that it does, I’m still having so much fun and I’m learning how to become a better filmmaker.
I miss waking up and then your video has three million views, but at the same time, I also don’t miss it, because it came with a lot of heaviness.
NGL: It sounds like 2024 has been quite a monumental year.
DVG: I feel very grateful. I’m alive. Still playing basketball. A little out of shape these days, but life is good.
Shua Buhangin: Well, I just want to say, like, thank you for having time after this busy film schedule.
Daren Vongirdner: Oh, my gosh, we’re almost there. We are finished with the actual show—we’ve turned that in. That comes out May 19th on Peacock.
I just have a thousand other things I have to do before that happens. I’m grateful, you know? But, man, I can’t wait to go to the beach and just not answer my phone.
I just have a thousand other things I have to do before that happens. I’m grateful, you know? But, man, I can’t wait to go to the beach and just not answer my phone.
SB: So personally, I’ve been following you for about a year now. I remember seeing some of your videos on Instagram, and I was like, wow, this is really stunning. The quality of production felt like real filmmaking. And not only was it good, but the story, the way you talk to the camera…it’s just, like, very real.
Now, you’ve paused or stopped making TikToks and Reels to focus on the YouTube channel and TV show.
Now, you’ve paused or stopped making TikToks and Reels to focus on the YouTube channel and TV show.
DVG: Yeah. I think the pause happened because of the burnout from, like, trying to chase the algorithm. And it had worked for us. I mean, we’re here in this moment with you, in this house, with all these opportunities, because of that algorithm.
But at a certain point, it just stopped working. And that made me very sad. It was like I was at the gym, and my game was off, and it was ruining more aspects of my life.
I was asking myself, “Do I actually enjoy this? Or is it just the first time that my work has been seen by people, when I’ve so desperately tried to get that to happen?” It made me realize, like, maybe I’m doing it for the validation.
So I had to step away from that, because if I’m doing it for validation and it doesn’t work…what the fuck is the point?
But at a certain point, it just stopped working. And that made me very sad. It was like I was at the gym, and my game was off, and it was ruining more aspects of my life.
I was asking myself, “Do I actually enjoy this? Or is it just the first time that my work has been seen by people, when I’ve so desperately tried to get that to happen?” It made me realize, like, maybe I’m doing it for the validation.
So I had to step away from that, because if I’m doing it for validation and it doesn’t work…what the fuck is the point?
SB: What has been your North Star consistently throughout the years? What’s kept you going?
DVG: I think my creative endeavors. A lot of my family is Filipino.
A lot of them were like, “How do we become millionaires?”
My family was one of the first families…I mean, this isn’t documented, but they started flipping denim jackets they find at the thrift store or whatever on eBay. And they were making a killing. I mean, I was a kid, but I just saw that they had straight up inventories in our houses. My family, all of them are hustlers in their own different ways.
Some of them are doing illegal things. We don’t need to talk about it.
There’s something in my bloodline that is like, we have to make money. But I always knew that I was a creative person. And I was like, “I can make this work. I can figure out how to make money for my family.” So if we’re talking, like, my entire existence, what my North Star is, it’s probably safety and security for my family, in the pursuit of sharing what’s on my chest.
A lot of them were like, “How do we become millionaires?”
My family was one of the first families…I mean, this isn’t documented, but they started flipping denim jackets they find at the thrift store or whatever on eBay. And they were making a killing. I mean, I was a kid, but I just saw that they had straight up inventories in our houses. My family, all of them are hustlers in their own different ways.
Some of them are doing illegal things. We don’t need to talk about it.
There’s something in my bloodline that is like, we have to make money. But I always knew that I was a creative person. And I was like, “I can make this work. I can figure out how to make money for my family.” So if we’re talking, like, my entire existence, what my North Star is, it’s probably safety and security for my family, in the pursuit of sharing what’s on my chest.
SB: When I first met you both at our last Block Party, I was immediately struck by how confident you are. I’m curious—as a person and as a creator, how do you feel confident in your abilities?
DVG: I think you have to be confident in your ability to make your dreams come true. So that kind of forces you to be confident in everything that you do in order to make it happen. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that you don’t have, like, doubts. I try to just visualize it going well, and I do my best to visualize the best version of me being able to achieve it, rather than the current me.
The rapper Russ once said a quote from his mom that has forever resonated with me. I don’t know if it’s verbatim, but it’s something along the lines of, “What if it can turn out better than you ever imagined? “
If you ask if I’m confident walking into a party of other creatives…no, not at all. We were lucky that we went that night because I was parked out front going, “I’m sure these people are great, but I can’t do it, you know?” But I went, and you said I looked confident, and we had a lovely conversation.
And I’m glad because that was probably my favorite creator event I’ve ever been to. The ones in LA feel a little more, “We only want to talk to you if you have a certain amount of followers.”
The rapper Russ once said a quote from his mom that has forever resonated with me. I don’t know if it’s verbatim, but it’s something along the lines of, “What if it can turn out better than you ever imagined? “
If you ask if I’m confident walking into a party of other creatives…no, not at all. We were lucky that we went that night because I was parked out front going, “I’m sure these people are great, but I can’t do it, you know?” But I went, and you said I looked confident, and we had a lovely conversation.
And I’m glad because that was probably my favorite creator event I’ve ever been to. The ones in LA feel a little more, “We only want to talk to you if you have a certain amount of followers.”
SB: What stands out when you look back at the production of your show, People Like Me?
DVG: I mean, there were so many hard parts, but what sticks out to me is day one of the fucking production. I have to give a speech as the director, and I seemed fine. But internally, I was fucking [motions with eyes and hands] gahhhhhhhhh, you know what I mean?
So, you know, I guess I’m just complex.
So, you know, I guess I’m just complex.
SB: I’d love to talk about your guys’ relationship. You’ve been partners in crime for, what, ten years? How is it having a partner in your corner?
DVG: We would not be where we are without one another.
AVA GORDY: Now that’s for sure
DVG: I’ll go first. So when we first got together, I was a rapper—we don’t have to go too far into the weeds there.
But I was in my twenties, and I remember how Ava would just, like, sit at my desk as I was writing. I can’t remember the first time you were in a session with me, but Ava always had a good ear, and we’ve kind of always clicked in that regard. I think we got really lucky that it was just kind of organic.
Especially in my earlier days—and especially in music—I remember so many days I would record vocals for eight hours straight, and I’d be so discouraged because I hated what it sounded like. And Ava would be in the bed, and even if she would just scratch me or something, I’d be like, “Okay, maybe I’ll be better tomorrow.”
I’m a guy who spends a lot of time alone. If I was single, I would spend even more time alone. And when you’re alone and discouraged…I don’t know if there’s a worse place to be in as a creative. So shout-out to you, Ava.
AG: I think that I’ve come out of my creative shell working with Daren, for sure.
I’ve always been hyper-independent. But I wanted to help him along his path because he’s simply a passionate man, and that’s infectious. Passionate energy is just infectious with my friends, family…anyone. Once you’re around it, it’s like, “Oh, I would do anything to see you achieve this through, to the extent that I know you can.”
I was a big dreamer of my own. So I felt like we both had this vision of being successful. I was a dancer, a dance teacher, host, writer, producer. I had a lot of jobs and was never home, really. Anytime I was home, I was helping him. But we were doing separate things.
DVG: When we moved to New York, it was just like, “Oh no, we have to help each other now.” We were on a walk in 2021, and our TikToks were doing well. We’re growing.
We just hired Farhan—we have a DP.
And I remember we were walking our dogs one morning and I looked at Ava and I said,
“I need you.”
AG: At first I was like, “What do you mean?” But at that moment, I thought, “Alright.”
It was bumpy for us in the first couple of years, just because I had moved to New York to become a dancer. So there was that aspect of my life where I needed to also see this through. But I also saw the vision.
AVA GORDY: Now that’s for sure
DVG: I’ll go first. So when we first got together, I was a rapper—we don’t have to go too far into the weeds there.
But I was in my twenties, and I remember how Ava would just, like, sit at my desk as I was writing. I can’t remember the first time you were in a session with me, but Ava always had a good ear, and we’ve kind of always clicked in that regard. I think we got really lucky that it was just kind of organic.
Especially in my earlier days—and especially in music—I remember so many days I would record vocals for eight hours straight, and I’d be so discouraged because I hated what it sounded like. And Ava would be in the bed, and even if she would just scratch me or something, I’d be like, “Okay, maybe I’ll be better tomorrow.”
I’m a guy who spends a lot of time alone. If I was single, I would spend even more time alone. And when you’re alone and discouraged…I don’t know if there’s a worse place to be in as a creative. So shout-out to you, Ava.
AG: I think that I’ve come out of my creative shell working with Daren, for sure.
I’ve always been hyper-independent. But I wanted to help him along his path because he’s simply a passionate man, and that’s infectious. Passionate energy is just infectious with my friends, family…anyone. Once you’re around it, it’s like, “Oh, I would do anything to see you achieve this through, to the extent that I know you can.”
I was a big dreamer of my own. So I felt like we both had this vision of being successful. I was a dancer, a dance teacher, host, writer, producer. I had a lot of jobs and was never home, really. Anytime I was home, I was helping him. But we were doing separate things.
DVG: When we moved to New York, it was just like, “Oh no, we have to help each other now.” We were on a walk in 2021, and our TikToks were doing well. We’re growing.
We just hired Farhan—we have a DP.
And I remember we were walking our dogs one morning and I looked at Ava and I said,
“I need you.”
AG: At first I was like, “What do you mean?” But at that moment, I thought, “Alright.”
It was bumpy for us in the first couple of years, just because I had moved to New York to become a dancer. So there was that aspect of my life where I needed to also see this through. But I also saw the vision.
SB: What’s it like mentally and emotionally to now be at a really busy part in your careers, but now your living situation is the exact opposite of it was in New York? It’s pretty peaceful and quiet here.
We wrote the show in October. We flew to New York in November to film. We were still addressing notes in the days before we got there, which was insane. And, it’s been pretty insane since then. Pretty nonstop. But yeah, the writing stage, the pre-production, the production, the editing stage…having this space has been necessary for me.
I don’t really know how I would have handled it in New York. I mean, I probably would have been at the gym all day just playing basketball, trying to avoid it.
AG: We thought we were going to write the show in New York. The show is about New York, so we assumed, obviously, we would still be there. And when we told our producer we were moving to Grand Rapids, they were like, “What are you doing? Aren’t we filming it in New York?”
But when we got here, it was like, oh, this is definitely where we’re meant to write it. It felt almost like a retreat.
It was this necessary evolution of us and our relationship, where we decided almost to live differently while we wrote this show.
Nathan Graber-Lipperman: First question for you is the same one I asked you back in December. What’s on your mind?
Daren Vongirdner: What’s on my mind? Um, what am I going to do with my life?
I’ve been working on People Like Me for…it was, like, a three-year process. The last six months have been crazy, and I haven’t really been able to do anything else. I just did my last speaking engagement with NBC, so it kind of feels like it’s officially over.
I’m working on this other pilot that I’ve been writing with Ava for a handful of years now, even before People Like Me. We were able to revisit that, and that’s exciting.
We’re also working on two episodes of Miles Away right now for the YouTube channel. So I’m just feeling lit up about being creative in something else again.
I’ve been working on People Like Me for…it was, like, a three-year process. The last six months have been crazy, and I haven’t really been able to do anything else. I just did my last speaking engagement with NBC, so it kind of feels like it’s officially over.
I’m working on this other pilot that I’ve been writing with Ava for a handful of years now, even before People Like Me. We were able to revisit that, and that’s exciting.
We’re also working on two episodes of Miles Away right now for the YouTube channel. So I’m just feeling lit up about being creative in something else again.
NGL: Not to look backwards for a sec, but walk me through the last month or so. What kind of sticks out the most?
DVG: The premiere sticks out. I mean, yeah, it’s been a crazy month. Professionally, maybe the craziest month of my life.
It started with NBC flying us out to LA. First time ever experiencing first class. And then just kind of being nervous for the premiere, you know? I hadn’t watched it with a group of people yet—especially in, like, a theater type situation.
That moment of us watching it…they essentially had it on loop every twenty-five minutes, then they would play the episode again. So the first screening happened, and I grabbed all my people—all my peers and my friends—and it was only a twenty-five-seat room. There were probably fifteen people in the back standing cuz they didn’t have any seats. It was a full room, and it was an incredible experience.
People laughed when they were supposed to laugh. They felt the emotion when they were supposed to feel it. Honestly, I wish it could’ve lasted longer. The episodes are short. It was a twelve-minute thing, and then it was over. I gave a little quick speech that I had been dreading, but in the moment, I felt like I had to say something.
It was the tiniest thing, but it felt so special. I’m still thinking about that night, wishing I can really soak it in.
And then they flew us out to Orlando, and we rode roller coasters for a week at Epic Universe, their new theme park. I came home, spent some time here trying to process while also, like, watching our show actually on Peacock.
And then we flew back to LA to go to VidCon, and I spoke on a panel. Hank Green asked me for a photo, which was a different moment. It made me realize, like, “Oh shit. I’ve progressed in this career a bit.”
NGL: Was that your first time meeting Hank? Or had you met him before, and then this time around, he’s the one asking you for the photo?
DVG: We have a lot of mutual friends, and I’ve hung out with him at a friend’s house before multiple times. But I only knew him in that regard. He was Hank Green, and I was just some editor—he didn’t know my work at that time.
When I moved to New York, we then became, like, mutual friends on the Internet, and he also has been very supportive of my music and has shared it on his TikTok. But to have that moment where I see him backstage at VidCon and we hug and we have a quick chat and he asks for the photo…I thought that was such a beautiful moment for my life, and I don’t even know if he realized that, you know?
NGL: Yeah, for sure. For him, it’s just another day.
DVG: Yeah.
NGL: Off of that, too, I was curious to hear who has reached out. Is there, say, a piece of feedback that’s really stuck with you since the show came out?
DVG: I mean, yes. So many people have reached out, whether it’s through a DM or they sent me a voice memo or it was in person.
But honestly, after VidCon, I extended my trip in LA a couple days cuz I wanted to spend time with family. And I was floored. I had long conversations with my uncles and my aunts and my cousins and my sister. It affected all of them, and it resonated with them so deeply in so many different regards, but to a level that I did not expect.
I didn’t expect to speak to my uncle and for him to go, like, “Bro, I have panic attacks too.” And, “Oh my god, that episode, I felt so seen. I felt like you were talking about me.”
To hear them tell me that they watched it five times…I haven’t even watched it that many times on the platform.
NGL: Have you gotten any feedback or heard anything from NBC as well? What has the energy kind of been around the whole project and campaign?
DVG: So, we had a meeting planned on the 19th, but it didn’t happen because I was traveling. That was supposed to be, like, the one-month update call.
Other than that, no, I haven’t really received anything from NBC. I think that’s standard practice. I don’t know how much these networks really share all the numbers. That’s the beauty of being a creator—you can see everything.
My fingers are crossed that they’ll share some insights, and maybe we’ll have conversations about season two or different projects. But in the current moment, no, I haven’t really heard much besides when I see them in person. There were some executives in the room at VidCon, and they all seemed to be really thrilled with the show.
NGL: It’s interesting that you brought up that idea of being a creator and getting instant feedback. It feels like a blessing and a curse, for sure. Because it can be nice to have data points, but at the same time, is there something nice about putting work out there and taking a backseat—just, like, appreciating the art as far as the art goes?
DVG: That’s a great point. There is a beauty in being able to see all of your analytics, and how did they find the video? What were the keywords they used to search for it? Did they come from my Instagram? That’s all great because you can say, “Okay, next time, I’m going to do this, and I’m going to try to make this better.”
But there is kind of some beauty in the not knowing. Because then I can just go, “It is what it is.” And hopefully, it reaches the people who it needs to reach.
There’s no comment section. The only way that I can really receive love is if people are actively reaching out to me.
It started with NBC flying us out to LA. First time ever experiencing first class. And then just kind of being nervous for the premiere, you know? I hadn’t watched it with a group of people yet—especially in, like, a theater type situation.
That moment of us watching it…they essentially had it on loop every twenty-five minutes, then they would play the episode again. So the first screening happened, and I grabbed all my people—all my peers and my friends—and it was only a twenty-five-seat room. There were probably fifteen people in the back standing cuz they didn’t have any seats. It was a full room, and it was an incredible experience.
People laughed when they were supposed to laugh. They felt the emotion when they were supposed to feel it. Honestly, I wish it could’ve lasted longer. The episodes are short. It was a twelve-minute thing, and then it was over. I gave a little quick speech that I had been dreading, but in the moment, I felt like I had to say something.
It was the tiniest thing, but it felt so special. I’m still thinking about that night, wishing I can really soak it in.
And then they flew us out to Orlando, and we rode roller coasters for a week at Epic Universe, their new theme park. I came home, spent some time here trying to process while also, like, watching our show actually on Peacock.
And then we flew back to LA to go to VidCon, and I spoke on a panel. Hank Green asked me for a photo, which was a different moment. It made me realize, like, “Oh shit. I’ve progressed in this career a bit.”
NGL: Was that your first time meeting Hank? Or had you met him before, and then this time around, he’s the one asking you for the photo?
When I moved to New York, we then became, like, mutual friends on the Internet, and he also has been very supportive of my music and has shared it on his TikTok. But to have that moment where I see him backstage at VidCon and we hug and we have a quick chat and he asks for the photo…I thought that was such a beautiful moment for my life, and I don’t even know if he realized that, you know?
NGL: Yeah, for sure. For him, it’s just another day.
NGL: Off of that, too, I was curious to hear who has reached out. Is there, say, a piece of feedback that’s really stuck with you since the show came out?
But honestly, after VidCon, I extended my trip in LA a couple days cuz I wanted to spend time with family. And I was floored. I had long conversations with my uncles and my aunts and my cousins and my sister. It affected all of them, and it resonated with them so deeply in so many different regards, but to a level that I did not expect.
I didn’t expect to speak to my uncle and for him to go, like, “Bro, I have panic attacks too.” And, “Oh my god, that episode, I felt so seen. I felt like you were talking about me.”
To hear them tell me that they watched it five times…I haven’t even watched it that many times on the platform.
NGL: Have you gotten any feedback or heard anything from NBC as well? What has the energy kind of been around the whole project and campaign?
Other than that, no, I haven’t really received anything from NBC. I think that’s standard practice. I don’t know how much these networks really share all the numbers. That’s the beauty of being a creator—you can see everything.
My fingers are crossed that they’ll share some insights, and maybe we’ll have conversations about season two or different projects. But in the current moment, no, I haven’t really heard much besides when I see them in person. There were some executives in the room at VidCon, and they all seemed to be really thrilled with the show.
NGL: It’s interesting that you brought up that idea of being a creator and getting instant feedback. It feels like a blessing and a curse, for sure. Because it can be nice to have data points, but at the same time, is there something nice about putting work out there and taking a backseat—just, like, appreciating the art as far as the art goes?
But there is kind of some beauty in the not knowing. Because then I can just go, “It is what it is.” And hopefully, it reaches the people who it needs to reach.
There’s no comment section. The only way that I can really receive love is if people are actively reaching out to me.
NGL: My last question for you: look, you’re on this side of the mountain now, right?
It doesn’t mean that there’s not more mountains to climb. But being on this side, if you were to do it all over again—joining SourceFed, going all in on your music career, working for creators like Smosh and Jarvis Johnson, TikTok, Miles Away, all of this finally leading up to this show—what would you change, if anything?
It doesn’t mean that there’s not more mountains to climb. But being on this side, if you were to do it all over again—joining SourceFed, going all in on your music career, working for creators like Smosh and Jarvis Johnson, TikTok, Miles Away, all of this finally leading up to this show—what would you change, if anything?
DVG: That’s a good question. Would I change anything?
I don’t know if I would change any decisions I’ve made—whether that’s videos I released or people that I worked for. I think the only thing I would try to do is approach creativity with more grace. I was so hard on myself for so many years, and I think it was to my detriment.
Like sure, I think with time I got better because, just like with anything: you do reps, you’re going to get stronger. But I did it from a place that was so unhealthy, and it didn’t bring as much joy into my life that it could have. I could have been making songs and videos and whatever and having the time of my life, but instead I was making songs and videos, and it was like pulling teeth every time, which got me to this point.
So I can’t be angry at myself, and I’m not angry at myself. But I just think it could have been a smoother ride.
I don’t know if I would change any decisions I’ve made—whether that’s videos I released or people that I worked for. I think the only thing I would try to do is approach creativity with more grace. I was so hard on myself for so many years, and I think it was to my detriment.
Like sure, I think with time I got better because, just like with anything: you do reps, you’re going to get stronger. But I did it from a place that was so unhealthy, and it didn’t bring as much joy into my life that it could have. I could have been making songs and videos and whatever and having the time of my life, but instead I was making songs and videos, and it was like pulling teeth every time, which got me to this point.
So I can’t be angry at myself, and I’m not angry at myself. But I just think it could have been a smoother ride.
NGL: I feel that. Any last thoughts or comments?
DVG: As I end this chapter of my life, do I have any last comments?
Um…I just hope that the show finds the exact person that it needs to find. I didn’t know that I was making such a serious show. I didn’t know that it was going to be as heavy as it is. And at first, I was scared of that.
But I have to remind myself that while I love making people laugh, I also really enjoy having deep conversations and talking about my feelings and other people’s feelings and how they think about things when it comes to emotional IQ. And I want to embrace that version of me even more.
Um…I just hope that the show finds the exact person that it needs to find. I didn’t know that I was making such a serious show. I didn’t know that it was going to be as heavy as it is. And at first, I was scared of that.
But I have to remind myself that while I love making people laugh, I also really enjoy having deep conversations and talking about my feelings and other people’s feelings and how they think about things when it comes to emotional IQ. And I want to embrace that version of me even more.
DAREN VONGIRDNER and AVA GORDY are the duo behind People Like Me, a semi-autobiographical story streaming on Peacock—
(STREAM THE SHOW) peacocktv.com
(DAREN’s IG, YT, TT) @darendarendaren
(AVA’s IG, TT) @ava_gordy
(STREAM THE SHOW) peacocktv.com
(DAREN’s IG, YT, TT) @darendarendaren
(AVA’s IG, TT) @ava_gordy
Nathan Graber-Lipperman
(IG) @bynategl
Shua Buhangin
(IG, YT) @shua_films
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